Episode 452: Damned If You Do, Damned If You Don’t: A Conversation With Ryan Diess

Join Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss in their latest episode of “The Business Lunch Podcast” as they tackle the controversial topic of businesses taking stances on political, cultural, and social issues. 

In this candid conversation, Roland and Ryan share their thoughts on the fine line companies must walk between expressing values and avoiding the risk of alienating customers or employees. 

They discuss recent cases where companies faced backlash, losing billions in market value, due to the decisions they made regarding public statements and actions. 

Reflecting on personal experiences and broader societal trends, the hosts delve into the importance of tolerance, freedom of expression, and the impact of aligning a company with specific values. 

Tune in to this engaging episode to explore the complex dynamic of business ethics and decision-making in today’s polarized world.


“I think this episode has a chance of maybe getting us into trouble… But it is a conversation that entrepreneurs everywhere are having but almost nobody’s having it in public and out loud because everybody’s afraid of the same thing which is getting canceled.

“So you’re going to take your views in this department that is responsible for handling this? And then what’s the process for determining what is the company’s view?”

“So, you know, we’re going to act in service of the greater mission… let’s focus on what unites us, what unites us, not what divides us.”


  • 00:00: Introduction 
  • 01:03: Natural Disasters
  • 06:27: Lets Make Donuts
  • 12:24: Bullying In The Workplace
  • 16:12: Value Of Business 
  • 21:15: Social Responsibilities 
  • 27:02: Disclosure Of Risk 


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Roland Frasier is co-founder and principal of three current Inc. Magazine fastest-growing companies and he has founded, scaled, or sold 24 different 7 to 9 figure businesses ranging from consumer products to industrial machine manufacturing companies with adjusted sales ranging from $3 million to $337 million. 

Currently growing Scalable.co, DigitalMarketer.com, RivalBrands.com, and Plattr.com while advising over 150 other companies on digitally centric customer acquisition, activation, referral, retention, and revenue strategies and plan implementation.

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